GSS 023: Gambling Disorder & Suicidal Thoughts

This is episode 23 of the Gambling Still Sucks podcast. In this episode, we take on a very serious subject.

Hey there, and welcome to the Gambling Still Sucks podcast. My name is Jamie. I am a compulsive gambler, and I’m also the host of this show. The last time I gambled was July 15th of 2010.

Now, from the GA literature, it talks about how gambling results in insanity, prison, or death. And I’ve always thought early on that that was kind of an extreme statement, but the more I get into this and really see the results of gambling, it’s really not untrue. It’s actually quite true.

And today, I wanted to take on sort of a couple of those topics, but mainly the one on death and suicide. And this is something that I’ve been doing for a long time. It’s something I think is extremely important to talk about. It’s something that I’ve been reluctant to talk about in my life, personally. I know I’ve mentioned some things in the past on this show, but I think it’s something that needs to be talked about, especially on this show, because it is such a prevalent, at least, thought.

And I think the statistics bear out that it’s something like 80%—four out of five people—that have a gambling disorder said they had suicidal thoughts or had a previous suicide attempt. And so that’s obviously just a staggering number, 80%. Even just sitting here and thinking of it, it’s really, really difficult for me to wrap my head around that number, even though I know it’s probably very true.

And at the bare minimum, people have the thoughts that I’ve had a hundred times, which is when you’re driving home, it’s just, “Maybe I should just drive this car off the road.” “Maybe I don’t deserve this.” “Maybe I don’t deserve to live.” “Maybe I don’t want to feel this way anymore.” And that seems, at that moment, to be at least a thought. I don’t want to call it a viable option—it’s definitely not a viable option—but in that moment, it’s a thought.

And I think I mentioned before that one of the most powerful things that I always remember is that thoughts are just thoughts. They don’t have to lead to any action. It could just be something that you had for dinner, or just kind of a show you watch that pops a random thought into your mind. And so there’s no need to act on it.

With suicidal thoughts, obviously, the act that prompts it is the gambling, and typically the losses, and the lies, and the manipulation, and all of that just kind of tearing yourself down to where you just don’t feel like you should live anymore.

And if you’ve felt like this before, I want you to know you’re not alone. I know myself, I’ve gone through these thoughts and experiences, and so many other people. And like I say, 80%, and that number could be even low. And I know it’s one of those things that when we go through the 20 questions at GA, on my first meeting, I said no to number 20, which is, “Have you ever had self-destructive or suicidal thoughts?” And I think that’s a common pattern. Most people, in their first little bit, don’t say yes to that answer. It’s only over time that we feel comfortable or kind of accept the fact that, yes, we did feel that way.

And I think all of us were glad that we didn’t act on it. Obviously. And I’ll kind of touch on some of my thoughts on suicide and some of the things that really helped me out along the way. But I just want to point out, like I said, that if you’re having these thoughts, just know that you’re not alone. And I think that’s what this whole podcast is all about—knowing that you’re not alone. And there’s so much power in that connection.

I think this is also a great time to point out that if you are having those thoughts, I’m not going to give out any one specific number, but a quick Google search for a suicide hotline will pull up the number and the contact information in your area, whether it’s your state or your country. And that’s—I don’t want to give out any specific one because I know we have listeners from all over the world, and so the best help is going to be the one that’s closest to you. So if you’re having those thoughts, and maybe it’s just, “Hey, you want to talk it out,” and there doesn’t need to be any action in mind—maybe you just want to call because you’re having these thoughts, and you don’t have access to a therapist, and you don’t feel like you can talk to a friend or a family member—then that randomness that just some stranger on the other line is going to pick up, give it a try. If you’re having those thoughts, please, I mean, seek out help.

Whether you do it through a hotline or through a therapist, remember, this is real life. This has huge consequences. I want you to hopefully seek out that help before it gets to a point which you can’t turn back.

And I think that’s a place where I want to segue into some of my thoughts on suicide. And I think all growing up, I don’t know where kind of my first thoughts on suicide came from, but I always just looked at it as kind of a selfish act. And it was one of those things because, I guess, I mean, we have had friends or people that we know that have had suicides in their families, and maybe I was just lucky because I was able to see the devastation of the family that was left behind, and that never-ending search for answers, and answers that just aren’t there. There aren’t answers to it.

But I think that was maybe a unique insight into that pain of the family left behind. And let me clarify, I do not think people that commit suicide are selfish. I don’t think they intend to do this. When I’ve had suicidal thoughts in the past, it wasn’t because I was doing something selfishly for me and knew that I would harm other people. I think once you get to that point, it’s well beyond that.

But I bring this up because I think it’s helped me a lot to realize that even if I did, I mean, when I had those thoughts, if I would have done something or taken some action to try and alleviate my pain—and I think this is one that we all probably, when we’re having those thoughts, we think we’re going to help out other people. “I don’t want to be a burden on other people anymore because financially I was taking money from other people, and I was lying to them and hurting them.” And I think internally, it just tears us up, and we don’t want to do that to other people anymore. And so we think an easy, quick solution is just for us to be gone out of their lives so they don’t have to deal with us anymore.

And this could come up because, I mean, when we do things, people get mad at us. They get angry at us, and they rightfully deserve to be angry at us and upset with us. But that doesn’t mean they don’t love us, and it doesn’t mean that they don’t still care about us, as upset as they are. That’s why I think it’s the worst thing that we could do—think that just by taking ourselves out, by doing something that is so permanent, that we’re going to help their life. Because if we fast forward—and this is kind of that whole telling the whole story again, right?—when we look at the long-term picture and what’s going to happen in our families and our friends that are going to miss us—and even if we were a screw-up and even if we didn’t have our stuff together—they can’t try to help us anymore.

And I know this is the other one that I was talking about, just kind of switching shoes. I just want to help people. And if somebody I know was having these thoughts, I just want to help them. And I can’t help them if they’re gone.

And that’s why, like I say, this realization of the bigger picture—that as bad as I am, as much as I maybe think that I’m ruining some other people’s lives when I was at the depths of my addiction—I wouldn’t be able to get to where I am today. And I can’t even imagine the pain that would still be there all these years later if I had acted on one of those little thoughts.

So, like I say, I credit this probably with my life—that thought process, that ability to see the big picture and to know that the temporary relief for me is only going to create more problems for those people that I’m trying to help out, the people I’m trying to eliminate their problems. I’m just going to add to them. And so that thought process has just saved my life.

And it’s uncomfortable to talk about this. I have friends and family that listen to the podcast, and yeah, it’s burying your soul to the world, I guess, to talk about your deepest thoughts, and especially the ones that are dark thoughts. To those people, I want you to know I’m very happy that I’m here, and I don’t plan on leaving you anytime soon. So you’re stuck with me. But I still get in these moods, and you do—you get depressed, and it just spirals, and the dominoes, and it’s just the problems become bigger and bigger in our heads. But talking them out has always helped me.

There have been a few times when I’ve reached out to people in my life and told them what was going on in my head, and that’s been really, really big. So I would encourage you to do that. Or, like I said, call the hotline numbers. Do a quick Google search: suicide prevention, suicide hotline in your area, and you will get the number because it’s worth it. And you don’t want to leave that pain behind. You don’t want that to be your final thing—I mean, your final memory from everybody else. You don’t want it to be that way.

And, like I say, as humans, I think we love a comeback story. We love in the movies when somebody’s beat down, and they’re struggling, and they get everything turned around. And it doesn’t take—it doesn’t happen overnight. It’s years and years. There’s a movie here in the United States about 15 years ago. I think it was called The Pursuit of Happiness, and it was based on a true story of a guy that was literally living in the bathroom stall with his son in a subway. And he went on to become a financial analyst and did really well. And I think he was running one of the financial companies at one point. He actually came and spoke at one of the trade shows I was at.

And I’ll never forget—he had a line in his presentation. He said, “At my worst moments…” I’m paraphrasing this, so I may butcher it, but “At his worst moments, when he was there in that bathroom stall with his son, he thought, ‘You know what? I got here, but that means I can also get myself out.'” And I think that was really powerful. And, like I say, now, it’s—I mean, he actually might have spoken. I don’t know if he was the speaker at the conference when I stopped at the casino on the way home. It might have been, or it was the year before, the year after—it would have been right in that time frame. So that’s kind of ironic.

But yeah, it’s just one of those things that you can—you can get to this depth, but we can also turn our lives around, and we can get back to where we want to be.

And then, as I mentioned earlier, it’s just kind of that pain. And I think one other thing to keep in mind is that pain doesn’t evaporate. As I was doing some research for the show, I started thinking that, and I’m like, “I did always think, okay, that my pain will go away, and other people’s pain will have it maybe for a little bit. They’ll be a little upset, but then it’ll go away.” But when I really started to think about it, it’s almost like pain just transfers in suicide. The pain transfers from the individual to the people that love them most, and it doesn’t go away. That pain doesn’t go away—it just changes form.

And so even when you’re at your worst, like I said, you know, you don’t want to hurt those people that love you. So just keep that in mind that it’s a permanent solution to a very temporary problem, and that you’re not the first person going through it. You won’t be the last person going through it. And hopefully, as we have more gambling here in the world, it will also fund more research into the links between suicide and gambling because there’s definitely a huge link there. The fact that I think gamblers have the highest suicide—it’s either the highest suicide rates or the highest thoughts of suicide of any addiction. And I get it because I’ve been there. And it is that whole—when you don’t—you’ve torn everything down, you’ve lied, you’re addicted, you don’t have any money—you just don’t seem like there’s any way to get out. And it seems like all the cards are stacked against you.

But hopefully, maybe my voice or the thoughts from this podcast will kind of stick with you for a long time, kind of like the gentleman from The Pursuit of Happiness—his thoughts have stuck with me over all these years. I hope that this can be helpful. I hope that, in kind of releasing probably the shame and embarrassment of my thoughts—like I said, they’re just thoughts—but releasing that shame and embarrassment in this platform to share and say, “Hey, I’ve been there, and it sucks.” Just like the name of this podcast—Gambling Still Sucks. Suicide sucks, but it’s something that we can all get through.

And finally, I’ll also just say, just be very mindful. One thing I’ve noticed—we talk about triggers with gambling—one thing that triggers suicidal thoughts in me is reading or hearing about suicide. So whether it’s in the local news or on the national level—and this probably is a topic I definitely wanted to do just a few days ago. We found out one of the premier fashion designers here in the United States, Kate Spade—and around the world—just committed suicide this week. And so it’s something that’s top of mind.

But when Robin Williams committed suicide and all the different folks committed suicide, it was one of those things that was in the news, and it definitely was a trigger for me to bring back a lot of those thoughts. So I hope this isn’t doing that for you. And if it is, like I said, reach out to one of the hotlines. But just also just kind of think big picture—again, switching shoes and seeing the big picture, the full picture. I don’t think you can go wrong with those two things. Those are two of the best things I’ve ever learned in my life, I think. I apply them to all aspects of my life, and hopefully, you can apply them to your life and your thoughts anytime you do get a suicidal thought.

Because, like I said, eight out of ten compulsive gamblers have suicidal thoughts, so you probably have had them. You probably don’t like them any more than I do. I hate them. I wish I could just get rid of them and say, “Okay, enough of that. No more of that crap out the door.” But things bring them back. So just be mindful.

And yeah, thanks for listening to this. It’s been a little difficult for me to get up the courage to do and to put out in the world, but I’m really glad I did. And as always, I hope it helps somebody. If you have any feedback on this, shoot me an email, send me a message. I love getting those. It’s been great to hear your response.

And next week, I’m hoping to have another guest recording, but I’m looking forward to getting some more people on to share their story, and we will share those in the next few episodes.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, this is for informational purposes only, especially on such a serious topic as suicide. Seek out the help of a medical professional. Go see your doctor. Go tell your doctor. They’re a great person that you can tell about your thoughts, your feelings, and that is a confidential situation. If you can get a therapist, that’s awesome too. Also, if you have any legal problems, seek out the help of a legal professional. As I said, this is just for informational purposes.

Music for the show is Something Elated by Broke for Free and is licensed under the Creative Commons license. I look forward to seeing you next week. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode, episode 24.