Jamie: Hey there, and welcome to the After Gambling Podcast. My name is Jamie. I’m a former problem gambler, and now it’s been over nine and a half years since I last gambled. So that’s probably a good place to start. No, I didn’t fall off the wagon. I didn’t go back to gambling. This hiatus—I’m sure whenever people see a long hiatus when it’s kind of tied with somebody that has a background of addiction, they think, ‘Oh man, I wonder if things are going south.’ And I just want to ease those fears and say, actually, in my case, it’s the complete opposite. Things are really, really good. Things are actually awesome.
In all fronts, it doesn’t mean I don’t have challenges. I have a ton of challenges. My day-to-day life is full of challenges. And I struggle with different things. But as I’ve said before, I just have better problems. And that’s what I want for you. And that’s why I continue to do this podcast. And so that’s kind of the good transition here is, what am I going to do with the podcast going forward? And I think it’s important to kind of understand my thoughts on how I’ve done things in the past, just kind of looking back.
Jamie: I really kind of treat this podcast as a book. And the different seasons—I use air quotes, you can’t see those, but air quotes—are really just kind of their own little book or kind of like a segment. And so this next one coming forward, I’m going to continue to build on that whole concept that this is all about living life after gambling, after addiction, and really reclaiming your life and doing all the things that you always wanted and you always thought maybe gambling could help you get, but now doing it without those things.
And so I’m going to share the things that I’ve just kind of learned and experienced in my life, the things that are helping me to be more successful in my career or in my personal life or with my mental health or in my family. And so I’m going to really dive into those topics. And this is not so much going to be focused on that whole how to quit gambling. I’ll definitely still have people on. I love having the interviews. I know I have a ton of people in line that have volunteered to do interviews, and I know you love the interviews. So I’ll definitely do those. And I think those are important.
Jamie: But even in those, I think it’s important to hear the story because those are the things you can connect with. But then also, I want those people to come on and tell their story about how things have changed, how things are better, how their life has improved since they quit. Because I think that’s the message and that’s the goal, right? The goal isn’t just to quit. The goal is to quit and then use that as a springboard into furthering your life.
So like I said, think of these things as books. And if you still—hey, you’re still struggling, you can’t quite get it, you have some relapses, you trip, you fall, whatever—get back up. But I encourage you to go back to the beginning. Go back to those early podcasts, listen to those. Those are the ones that are really going to be influential or helpful, hopefully, in helping you to quit those early days of addiction. And a lot of it is—I mean, hey, look at, that was a couple of years ago. I was closer to my last date back then. And that was really the focus, was those early episodes was to help people build a bridge or to build a bridge for people to come across, to get that help that they needed.
Jamie: And so those episodes are always going to be the best ones to focus on. And so cherry-pick them, go back and find a topic and listen to it again. Listen to it again. That’s what I do with my favorite books. Several of my books, I’ve probably read them four or five, six times or different segments of them. And when I’m having a rough day, I’ll go back and I’ll listen to a little section of that audio because it helps me. It helps me to go back. It helps me to better understand the topic. And I have a better understanding and better application to my life when I go back. So definitely go back, check out those early episodes, listen to the stories again, because sure, you heard them once, but you’re going to come through it now with a completely different perspective. And you may pull one little thing out of that, one little piece, a little five or 10-second thing that I said or somebody that came on said, and that’s going to be that little thing that you need to kind of move you to the next level.
Jamie: Now, the other thing I really want to touch on is the content. The one thing when I started this, I mean, I didn’t have this grand plan of all the different things I’d get into. Or now, I mean, looking back, some of the events I’ve been invited to or discussions I get into, those were not even on my radar. Some of them were probably hopeful—that I’d get to that point where I’d be able to be part of a conversation going forward about how do we reduce harms or how do we change things up to help people, help people get help. So I’m now in part of those conversations.
But the one thing that I haven’t liked over the last few years, it was just part of how I built this, was that everything was on this After Gambling brand. And for those of you that don’t know, I am a marketer. I focus on brand—that’s what I do in my day-to-day life. And as I became involved in more conversations and the topics that were coming onto my radar and that I was talking about got wider, I continued to do a lot of them under that After Gambling brand and on the Twitter handle or on the podcast, because that’s all I had at the time. And that’s where most of the attention, that’s where most of the focus was. And so I thought that was the most influential place where I could do some of that work.
But all along the way, I knew I needed to kind of separate those things out. And this is really a great point. This is kind of the fork in the road where this brand, the After Gambling brand, going forward, is going to be strictly focused on how to help people quit and then how to help people live a better life after basically all the things that I’ve done, learned, et cetera. It’s the field guide, the Cliff Notes, that hopefully people can get to the place in my life and the place that I hope to be 10 years, which is going to hopefully be even better, um, faster. And so that’s hopefully that this will be that shortcut, that guide.
Jamie: But I’m going to focus just on that type of stuff. So all the stuff that’s about gambling expansion or thoughts on what we should do to prevent people from developing a gambling problem in the first place, all that stuff’s going to get moved into other projects so that this one stays very focused on that task of building that bridge to help people and then helping them along the way as they move forward, just as I wish was there for me, um, 10 years ago. So those are the things you can expect to see from the After Gambling podcast or on Twitter or any type of blog post as we go forward.
The other stuff I’m going to move. Um, so if you’re interested in those other things, it’s still going to be there. It’s just going to be in different places, um, and on their own separate brand, uh, so that again, it can stay very focused so that the attention can be on one singular piece or aspect of this whole gambling thing and the content doesn’t bleed into other things. Um, so by all means, if you’re only interested in this, I love having you stay here. Don’t worry about all this other stuff. But I want to bring it up so that if you are interested, you’ll know where to get some of those other thoughts or opinions on different topics.
So the first one is going to be—this is After Gambling. Also have Before Gambling, and this is where I’m going to put all my content and thoughts and ideas on, all right, how do we approach gambling in a way, um, legally, legalized gambling in a way that prevents people from getting to the point that I got to, and that many of the people that listened to the show got to. What can we do? What are those things that we can, we can change, whether it’s with regulation or operations or just education, which I think is a huge, huge part of this. Um, all that type of stuff is going to go under that Before Gambling brand.
Jamie: So yeah, Before Gambling on Twitter, um, haven’t figured out if I’m going to do a podcast. It’ll probably be a blog. May do a podcast, ’cause I love this format. It’s a great way to communicate. Um, it’s definitely one of the ways that it’s the best for me. I’m a good writer, but I overthink it, um, and it takes a long, long time for me to write a simple blog post. Um, but again, so if you look out for that, there’s already a website up and there’s a Twitter handle. So if you want to check out that Twitter handle, um, and I’ll be updating and adding things to that Before Gambling, that focus on the, the things that we can do to prevent people from getting to becoming a problem gambler in the first place.
Because I think that’s an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I absolutely believe that. I think that you’re never going to help everyone, but we should help to prevent as many things as possible, um, upfront. And I really do think that by educating people, you can minimize the amount of harm experienced from gambling. So if you’re interested, check out Before Gambling and yeah, we’ll go from there.
Jamie: The other project that I’ve started, which I am probably the most excited about, um, because it brings all of my little interests and expertise into one lane, is Dyve. And it’s D-Y-V-E, uh, Dyve Agency. And Dyve is a thought process, but it’s also going to be a service provider, um, where I provide advisory and consulting services around that intersection of brand, uh, which as I said earlier, marketing and brand is something that I love. And brand is just storytelling and, and all, all of the intricacies that go into positioning a brand and telling a story and communicating effectively.
I’m mixing that, obviously, with the bigger arching goal of all my projects, which is to reduce problem gambling and gambling harm. So essentially, what can companies do? What can organizations do? Um, what can people do to make sure that they’re communicating effectively and in the best way possible to minimize, uh, the risk to their business, but also to the risk to their consumers around, uh, brand and brand messaging. And that’s what Dyve is all about. So Dyve is going to be—like I say, that’s my, my passion project. That’s one that has always been kind of in the back of my head, and I’m really excited to go forward with it.
Jamie: And it’s, it’s already opening some great doors in order for me to get in and to just kind of communicate from my lived experience, um, but also combine it with my deep expertise around brand, because I think how you frame a story and how you tell a story, um, it matters. It just matters. I mean, we’ve all had parents say, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. And there are so many people, uh, that are just trying to do some really good things, I think. Um, but they just keep stubbing their toe. And a lot of it is just how they say it and the framing.
And I really, I think that this is an area that I can bring these two expertise areas of my life, being both the problem gambler and also kind of in the brand and positioning and bring those together. Again, this is kind of a mix of everything, right? This is something that can prevent people from getting into problem gambling, ’cause we’re going to fix some of the messaging and we’re going to speed up the process that they get to the bridge because we’re going to fix the messaging. And it’s just something that I think I can have a lot of influence here. I think it’s something that I bring a ton of value to the people that I’m going to work with, and ultimately, like I say, all these projects come back to my North Star, which is to reduce problem gambling and gambling harm.
Jamie: And I’m sure I’ve said it before, there are a lot of ways to do this, and I come at this willing to run down every path that gets to that ultimate goal. I’m not a person that looks at it and says, ‘Okay, look, there’s only one way, and that’s just to cut off all gambling.’ That’s not my vision, that’s not my thought. I’m a big believer in controlling the controllables. Control all the things that you can control, because there are always things that are completely outside of your control.
So with Dyve, like I say, it’s something that I’m going to dive into—pun intended, I guess. And that’s, um, I guess here I’ll share a little bit about the naming of Dyve. Uh, it is kind of that thought on doing a deep dive, ’cause that’s really what I do whenever I do anything. It’s a deep dive, and brand and problem gambling, I can’t think of two things I’ve done a deeper dive in. But then the other side of it is I just love…I mean, hell, I’m recording this thing in my basement, right? I work from home. I’m not the big flashy corner office. There was a time that I thought that that was something I really wanted, right?
But I’m more of a dive bar, a dive hangout. I love the restaurants, the little nooks that are the local joints where you go in, and the food is cheap and the people are nice and everything’s delicious. And there’s just that kind of cozy atmosphere to it. And that’s, that’s kind of how I’m approaching this enterprise too.
Jamie: Yeah, I mean, enterprise—it’s dumb to even say, it’s just a little small business, whatever. Um, it’s a dive, it’s just me. But there’s so much passion behind it, and I think that’s really going to carry through. I’m not trying to make this some, uh, massive enterprise; wherever it goes, it goes, and it’ll be kind of cool to see where it goes. But at the end of the day, like I say, it’s just me. I’m Jamie. I’m a former problem gambler that also knows a lot about brand and positioning, um, but I don’t think that I know too much.
So yeah, that whole concept of Dyve, that’s a little, I guess, behind the scenes that you get here only on the After Gambling Podcast, uh, behind the naming of it. And also it’s short and easy, which makes for good social media stuff, good websites, and I’m getting a little off track. But yeah, you can see that I love that stuff. I love brand strategy and marketing. So this is a great way for me to take my everyday work and use it for good. So if you’re interested in that, again, it’s @DyveAgency on Twitter, DyveAgency.com—you can find out stuff there. And yeah, I’m excited about it.
Jamie: And I guess I’ll close my topic talking about Dyve with, I’m going to work with a lot of people that have a lot of different interests, and that’s going to rub people the wrong way. And I already know that some people are going to say, ‘Oh, are you getting money from the industry?’ or ‘Are you working—’ and try and throw stones. And frankly, I’m just going to say this up front: Jamie DGAF. I don’t give a… yes, I will work with anyone that I think has good intentions or that I think that I can work with to improve, to reduce problem gambling and gambling harm. And the moment that I think, okay, this isn’t going where I think it is, Jamie’s going to be out the door.
So I just don’t care. I don’t need it. That’s the one awesome thing about this is, like I said earlier, my day-to-day life, my work outside of all of this, is awesome. It’s never been better. I don’t need to do any of this stuff; I do this stuff ’cause it’s my passion, it’s stuff that I love. Would I absolutely love to make this full-time? Yes, of course. But if you think that I’m going to do stuff and sacrifice my morals and beliefs just by talking to people that have different views or different thoughts, uh, well then, sorry. I appreciate your opinion, but this is where we will disagree.
Jamie: “And I will continue to move along and do what I’m going to do because, at the end of the day, it’s all about intent. And unless you are me and inside my head and know what my intent is—and only I know that—my wife doesn’t know that, my friends don’t know that, you don’t know, nobody knows what my intent is. I will try to be as crystal clear as possible about what my intent is, but, um, I just, I just don’t… I’m not going to engage. Like, it’s just one of those things. I’m going to do what I’m going to do in the best interest of reducing problem gambling and gambling harm, and that’s going to be it.
So if that upsets you, I apologize. Hopefully, you’ll still listen to the After Gambling stuff and focus on that. And again, that’s why I’m separating these things out because I don’t think everybody agrees on everything, and that’s one of the things we see in our world today. Everybody gets upset about, oh, this person—they’re 98% awesome, and then they did this 2% thing that I either don’t like or disagree with, and it’s like, all right, they’re a bad person. It’s not so black and white. There are shades of gray in everything. It doesn’t matter what we’re talking about; there are always going to be shades of gray.
Jamie: So hopefully, like I said, if you disagree with me on certain things, you’ll still stick around for the other things that we agree on. Because there’s so much good that can be done when you work together with people. And the other thing is just… one thing I’ve done that’s really been eye-opening, I mean, even this podcast—you can listen all the way through, and you’re going to see the evolution of some of my thoughts and how they’ve changed. And some of them, I’ll probably change back again and flip back and forth. But that’s just part of it.
And that’s—I’m going to touch on this in the next episode when we talk about seven stages of grief. But I think it’s a positive that I keep changing, and I’m not pegging myself in this one little area where I’m stuck, and it’s like, all right, I can’t go that way because I’ve already discussed this, and I’ve already gone on record and said I don’t think this is a good idea. No, if I have new information that says, hey, this… there may be a path that this is a good idea, then I need to explore it.
So yeah, that’s what Dyve is going to be all about. So again, check out Dyve, check out Before Gambling, you’re obviously listening to After Gambling, so those are the three main ones. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else right now… I don’t think so. I think that’s going to capture just about everything.
Jamie: Oh, the last one is my personal Twitter, @JamieSalsburg. If you want to follow that, that’s something that I’m using a lot more with just my personal views and opinions. Feel free to follow along there, and again, feel free not to follow along, but that’s something that I’m definitely using a little bit more. So that’s one of those places where if it doesn’t fit the other things, I’ll kind of comment or share, engage in stuff there. And I love to kind of use Twitter to get a sense, get a temperature of how people are feeling or thinking. So a lot of that will be done on my personal, so you can check that out.
So that covers the different channels, different brands, and the topics I’ll be talking about on each one. Hopefully, that makes sense. If it doesn’t, feel free to reach out to me at any of those and say, ‘Hey, Jamie, wait a second, what’s the deal?’ and I’ll try and explain it a little bit more. But I think I covered it hopefully good enough.
Jamie: But then there are two last things. First of all, holy crap. Thank you. Thank you for listening. This is something that when I stopped doing some of the recordings, the numbers fell off a little bit, but then in the last five months or so, they just keep going as if I’m still putting out episodes. I’m getting five, six thousand downloads a month. And I started this thing two years ago on my birthday, almost exactly two years ago, February 8th. I released, I think, the first three episodes. And I remember I’d go to my GA meeting and be like, ‘Hey, we got 40 downloads!’ And my friends and I, we would all high-five, and it was kind of cool.
“When I release this episode, this is going to push it over a hundred thousand. And that doesn’t take into account YouTube and some of the other places that the podcast is located. And that number—as I always say, it’s something that I wish the number was zero. I wish there was absolutely no need for this podcast or similar podcasts where people are coming, looking for answers, looking for help because they’re struggling in an area of their life. But it’s damn cool to know that it’s helping, that people are listening.
Jamie: “It’s really cool to see that the growth continues, and I’ve heard feedback from not only just gamblers and people trying to quit gambling, but also therapists and other people that work in the industry who are listening to the podcast. It’s helping them better understand the addiction, and I think that’s something I’m extremely proud of. Because I think it’s hard to understand. I mean, I know when I had my friend that was gambling, I was like, ‘What the hell’s wrong? Like, just… just stop!’ And I didn’t understand.
“So to see that this has grown like it has and that it’s reached a hundred thousand downloads… I mean, it’s frightening in a way, but it’s cool to see that that’s a hundred thousand times where, hopefully, somebody’s finished the episode and they either have a better understanding of how to help themselves or how to help others. And for that, I just think this is… this is pretty damn cool.
And, of course, the entrepreneur in me now says, well, a hundred thousand… I mean, a million is right around the corner. So yeah, I’m pretty motivated to continue to put out good content for you. But as I’ve said before, I’m not just going to talk to talk or just to get download numbers. Now, I have some more stuff I want to share, stuff I want to talk about—books that have really helped me, resources that have really helped me.
Jamie: “And that’s what this is going to do going forward—just give you other tools that have helped me, because I think if they’ve helped me, obviously, there’s something there, and maybe it will help you as well. And then finally, I want to wrap this up by saying that I’ve changed one big thing that, uh, early on, I was really putting off and avoiding, and that’s providing an opportunity for people to support the show.
“It was something that I just wanted to do. I didn’t want to do it to try and sell ads or do any of that, and I’ve had opportunities to put ads on the show. It’s not going to happen. I see no fit there. But I am going to provide an opportunity to support me, and I have created a page. If you go to aftergambling.com/support… I think it’s also the link on Twitter… aftergambling.com/support… there’s some ways that you can support the show, whether it’s just making a one-time financial donation or… like I said, think of this like a book.”
Jamie: “If this has helped you, and it’s not too much to throw $15 toward it, that’s kind of the cost of a normal book, right? And that’s really what it costs me each month. I pay $15 for the hosting of the podcast so that these stay on the air and available to people. And there are some other minor costs that I have no problem covering. But I also know from listening to other people’s shows and seeing their stuff, there’ve been times that I’ve just been like, ‘Man, I get a ton of value out of this,’ and I want to support them.
“So when those people, other creatives, creators, come out with products, I’ve bought their products or backed them on Patreon style stuff just because I wanted to say thanks. And I started thinking, I’m like, I haven’t provided people with that opportunity to thank me. And it’s not expected, but I know when I do it, it’s kind of that double win where I feel good because I know I’ve gotten so much value out of what they’ve provided me. So, hey, it’s a small little token—I’ll buy their book or send them a couple of bucks or whatever, and I know that, like I say, that win-win.”
Jamie: So, long-winded way of saying there are ways you can support the show—whether it’s buying a book, using an affiliate link, or if there are other resources that help me. But again, those are affiliate links, so how those work, if you aren’t familiar: if you’re interested and if it’s something you actually want to buy, if you click the link on the website, I get a small commission from it. It doesn’t cost you anything extra. It’s just a way that the provider uses to get more marketing, get new eyeballs, and spread their stuff. So, like I say, aftergambling.com/support, if you’re interested in that. It’s awesome.
“But don’t worry about it. This is not a big deal. There aren’t that many expenses. Again, it’s just one of those things I wanted to throw out there because it does allow some other things and other growth to happen in the future. But yeah… I don’t know what else to say there. Thank you!”
