In Episode 53 of the After Gambling Podcast, Jamie takes a closer look at the powerful fantasy that many compulsive gamblers cling to—the dream of hitting that big win. He explains why this belief is so seductive, how it keeps gamblers trapped in the cycle of addiction, and what can be done to break free from this dangerous illusion. Jamie also shares personal insights and practical advice on how to shift your mindset and move toward a healthier, gamble-free life.
Simon Sinek
Intro: This is episode 53 of the After Gambling Podcast, and in this episode, we’re going to talk about how it’s literally impossible to win at the game of gambling.
Hey there, and welcome to the After Gambling Podcast. My name is Jamie, and the last time I gambled was July 15th of 2010.
Now, the title of today’s episode, How You Literally Cannot Win at the Game of Gambling, is sure to draw some attention. I’m sure it’s going to get some smirks and some eye raises and some questioning. And so, let me explain.
Over the past few weeks, I was doing my normal kind of YouTube in the morning, listening to some content, some people that I like to listen to that have good thoughts and energy. And one of those is an author named Simon Sinek. And Simon was talking about his new book, which came out in the fall. It’s called The Infinite Game.
And as he was describing it, I thought, you know what? This is just like gambling, and there’s so much application to gambling. And you see, what Simon was talking about is based on game theory. And basically, there are just two types of games. There are finite games and infinite games.
A finite game is one that’s defined as known players, fixed rules, and an objective. So think of most sports, soccer, football, golf. You know the players. You play by a certain rule. You play by a certain set of rules. And there’s an objective. There’s a time limit. You start the game, you end the game, and then, based on the rules, you declare a winner. That’s a finite game.
Now, an infinite game is a little different. It’s defined as known and unknown players, rules are changeable, and the objective is to just keep the game going.
And the example Simon uses is business. There’s no way to win business. You’re either ahead or behind, but you never win. Apple is winning. They’re ahead, but they haven’t won because the game’s not over. They’re always new players. You don’t know who the next person is that’s going to come in and replace Apple or replace Facebook or replace these prominent places like Amazon.
And the rules are changeable. You’re not playing by one set of rules. Amazon is focusing on the online. Maybe somebody comes along with a whole new way of delivering that changes the game. So the rules are changeable. And the objective is just to keep going—stay in the game as long as possible. Basically, you’re trying to outlast people.
So you have those two games: finite and infinite. And then Simon started to dive into what happens when you play a game and it’s finite versus finite. The system’s stable because everybody’s playing by the same set of rules. They know who the players are. They know what the objective is. So that’s a stable system.
And then when you pit an infinite player versus an infinite player, it’s also stable. So this is business. I mean, like I was talking earlier, social media—Instagram versus some other upcomer, Snapchat. It’s a stable system. There aren’t set rules, but everybody’s just trying to stay in it. They’re trying to play. They’re trying to continue to play. And so, the system remains stable.
Now, where things get messy is when you have one player that’s a finite player, and they’re playing against somebody that’s an infinite player. Because one is playing to win, and the other is just playing to keep playing.
Now, as Simon describes, when you have a finite player versus an infinite player, the system is not stable. And invariably, what happens is the finite player finds themselves in quagmire until they drop out of the game and leave or leave the game because they’ve run out of either the will or the resources to stay in the game.
Because when one player is playing to win, but the other person is just playing to extend the game, the player that is playing to win eventually just runs out of energy. Like Simon says, they run out of resources. In our case, it’s money. We run out of resources.
And so I think you probably see where I’m going with this. The finite player is the gambler. They think they’re playing a game that’s finite with fixed rules and known players— them versus the house and an objective to win.
And I would say that’s true in a very small micro of a single bet, a single wager, a single game. That yes, you can win at one of those single games. But that’s not the game that the infinite player is playing. That’s not the game that the house is playing. The house is just playing to continue on. They know that they just need to keep the game going. Keep the game churning forward, churning forward. They’re going to wear out the finite player that runs out of the money or the will to keep playing the game.
So this is why I say you cannot win at the game of gambling, because you’re playing the wrong game. The game you’re playing is a finite game, thinking you can win at it. But you’re playing against an infinite player, and the system isn’t stable.
And so, invariably, the finite player, the gambler, loses, because they’re going to run out of resources. The house is just sitting there, continuing to play, continuing to churn. And they’re going to win in the long run. And when you start looking at it this way, and you realize this, it really just struck me. Because it’s not just about gambling. I think this concept can be applied to other areas of our lives.
I mean, think about dieting. If you say, “I want to lose 20 pounds,” that’s a finite goal. If you hit 20 pounds and then you stop, you go back to old behaviors, and you put the weight back on. And I can tell you this because I’ve done it. I lost a lot of weight, gained it all back because I was playing a finite game of, “Oh, I need to lose this weight.”
But when you start looking at things in terms of infinite games, it changes the way you approach it. So if you say, “I want to live a healthy life and make healthy choices,” well, now you’re just in this infinite game where you’re continuing to play day by day, making better decisions, making healthy choices, and there’s no end goal. The goal is just to keep going and live that healthy lifestyle.
Same thing with gambling recovery. If you set a goal of, “Oh, I want to get to one year without gambling,” well, that’s a finite goal. But once you hit that one year, if you’re like, “OK, I did it. Now what?” You kind of lose that motivation. So instead of setting those types of goals, you focus on the infinite goal of, “I want to live a life free from gambling and make healthy decisions each day that keep me away from gambling.”
And I think that’s really the key to long-term recovery. That’s what the people that have long-term recovery are doing. They’re not looking at it in terms of, “I need to hit a certain number of days.” They’re just saying, “Each day, I’m going to make the right decisions that keep me out of that cycle of addiction.”
And so, like I said, when I heard this concept, it just really struck me because it’s such a perfect analogy for gambling. And I think it’s something that we can take and apply to so many different areas of our lives.
So I hope that this resonates with you, and that maybe this concept helps you to think about things differently. Instead of focusing on these finite games that you’re playing, shift your mindset to, “How can I stay in the game and continue to make the right decisions over time?”
Because like I said, the house is playing an infinite game. They’re not trying to win one game. They’re just trying to keep the game going. And they know if they keep the game going long enough, they’re going to win because you’re going to run out of resources.
So I think that’s kind of the big takeaway for today. I hope this concept of finite versus infinite games is something that you can apply to your life, whether it’s gambling, whether it’s dieting, whether it’s working out, whether it’s your relationships.
Start looking at things in terms of infinite games. How can you just keep going, keep making the right decisions, and stay in the game as long as possible? Because when you shift your mindset to that, you stop worrying about the individual outcomes, and you start focusing on the process.
And I think that’s really the key to long-term success in any area of life—whether it’s gambling recovery, whether it’s business, whether it’s anything you’re doing. Focus on staying in the game and continuing to make the right decisions over time.
And with that, I just want to say thank you again for listening. I hope this concept helps you as much as it helped me when I first heard it. As always, remember, I’m not a doctor, lawyer, therapist, or any of those things. I’m just a guy with a gambling problem who found a way to recover, and now I want to share what I’ve learned along the way with you.
If you need professional help, I encourage you to reach out to a trained professional, whether it’s a therapist or counselor, who can guide you on your journey.
And finally, music for the show is Something Elated by Broke For Free, and it’s licensed under the Creative Commons License.
I’m Jamie, I’m a compulsive gambler, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.