This is episode 50 of the After Gambling Podcast, and in this episode, we’re going to get really curious.
Hey there, and welcome to the 50th—can you believe it?—the 50th episode of the After Gambling Podcast. My name is still Jamie, I’m still a compulsive gambler, and the last day I gambled is still July 15th of 2010.
And it’s hard to believe that it’s 50 episodes later. Started this podcast a little over 10 months ago, and it’s been really kind of cool to see it grow. And when I did it, I released five episodes, and I wasn’t sure it was going to be weekly. So we’re still kind of on that weekly pace, but it’s just shocking to kind of be at 50. Anytime you hit these numbers, it’s one of those things that it’s kind of fun and exciting and scary and all those types of things all at once. But it’s also really cool.
I want to say upfront, just thank you for listening. Obviously. I mentioned in a tweet this week, I mean, every download, they don’t mean anything. I mean, because, you know, I don’t make any money off this podcast. There is no revenue stream from the downloads. The downloads simply, to me, represent—each one represents a time that somebody was looking for hope or looking for inspiration or looking to become educated on the topic of problem gambling. And the fact that you push play 30,000 times, and that’s—this episode is going to push it over 30,000 times—is humbling. It’s flattering. It’s daunting. It’s all those things.
So just thank you very much for listening. I’ll continue to do what I do and continue to have you on to share your stories because it’s really cool. I think there’s a lot of momentum going. I can see it in the downloads alone. Each month is growing larger and larger and larger. And so it’s cool to see this happening. Thanks for listening. Thanks for staying with me now for 50 podcast episodes.
I don’t know if I’d want to listen to myself. I don’t know if I’d want to listen to myself for 50 episodes, but I’m glad that you’re here. And hopefully, this is helping in some way in whatever you’re doing in your life.
So now, I know in the last episode, I teased that this episode was going to be talking about looking back at gambling and seeing it as a pleasurable thing or looking at it and seeing it as what it was. And I teased that in the last episode. It’s the topic I still want to hit on. I want to do a little bit of research because a lot of it’s based on the Alan Carr method. So I really—I want to spend some time digging into the Easyway method because I think it’s definitely a valuable method, but I want to speak from an educated point of view. So I just need a little bit more time over the holidays. I’m going to get that book, read it, and then we’ll come back, and we’ll do that episode in the next three or four.
But this episode, like I say, I wanted to do something fun also because it’s the 50th. And so, as I was thinking, what has been kind of the most influential thing or things in the last 10 months? And there have been many. But one thing that really struck me, it comes from a conversation—and it’s from a series of messages that I have with an individual. And we have all sorts of talks about different topics, a lot relating to problem gambling and how we can address problem gambling, whether it’s with data or with regulation.
But one day, they said something, and it just has been stuck in my head ever since. And they said, you know what? I think we haven’t been curious. I think we haven’t been curious enough in the past. They included themselves. They said, you know what? I don’t even think myself, I’ve been curious enough about digging into problem gambling in the past. And that just really struck me. It was something that—I think they’re right. And as I kind of dug into my past and my history and my recovery, even along the way, I wasn’t always curious enough.
And so that’s today’s topic: Are we being curious enough?
So the takeaway from this one is just going to be—what else can you be curious about that can help you in your recovery or in your helping of others? If you’re in the treatment arena or if you’re a stakeholder in a gambling company, what can you do on your part? What do you need to be more curious about?
So, like I said, curious. It’s just such an interesting word, and it just seems to be perfect. And I found it to be perfect for pretty much every discussion around gambling. So we’re going to go through some of those things, and I’m going to start with my story. Obviously, you know, I’ve been in the clean for almost eight and a half years now after being stuck for seven years in the cycle of addiction. And looking back, I’ve mentioned that it’s equally miraculous and frustrating to realize that I’ve been able to change so much so quickly.
And at times it’s fast. Sometimes it’s slow. When you look at it, the difference between July 14th and July 16th is night and day. I mean, so much changed in that one day. I mean, I was an addict in the morning. When I went on the riverboat by the evening, I was already well down this path towards going to GA meetings. And really, what is all that? Becoming curious. That’s what happened. I mean, the curiosity was forced upon me early on, but the people around me became curious.
And when I was gambling, I look back, and I started thinking about it—I was never really that curious about exploring the methods that were actually proven by others to quit. And so when I got caught, and that curiosity was forced upon me, I began to go into GA, I did one-on-one therapy, I became curious about the addiction, and I evolved from an addict into a person thriving in recovery.
And it was all rooted in curiosity. Granted, like I said, I didn’t always want to seek out that curiosity, but it was there. And so I started meeting people at GA meetings, and I saw what they were doing. Okay, and I was curious. Alright, if they did that and it’s working for them, maybe I should try some of that.
And like I say, it all came down to once I started getting curious. And over the years, I’ve become more and more curious. And that’s really what’s led me to the point of where I am today.
Now, let’s go back three or four years. I was curious. Would it help others and would it help me if I shared my story on a blog? And so I bought a domain name, and I didn’t really do much with it. But then, over time, I started to add some content to it. And then, 10 months ago—actually, probably about a year ago—I started thinking, you know what? I wonder if a podcast might be a better way. I was curious, is that going to be a better way to connect?
Because I listen to a lot of podcasts. And when I think about it, you can listen to a podcast in your earbuds. Most people probably listen to it through headphones. So, you can listen to it in privacy when you’re at work, on a bus, working out. And given the nature of the topic and the content on this show, I think a lot of people probably will watch it or listen to it in privacy. And so I thought maybe podcasts might be the way to go.
And I was curious. I was curious about all that stuff. And that’s what’s led me right here, doing this talk on this platform. Curiosity. But as you know, it’s not just about me. It’s about all of us becoming more curious about so many more things.
So what is it you need to become curious about? Are you curious what’s on Reddit? And what goes on on Reddit? Well, guess what? Go find out. Dive in. Are you curious what’s going on on Twitter? Go find out. Are you curious about what one-on-one therapy would be? Explore all these curiosities. The only thing that we can do is explore. And each one, we check it off the list as either, okay, this thing worked, or it didn’t work.
And it’s kind of—recovery is not this straight line, but it’s one of those things that we’re constantly looking around and trying new things, being curious. And so the takeaway from this one is just to continue to be curious.
Now, that’s my pitch to you, the listener. I mean, that’s the broad audience at this point. But I want to go into—there’s some other things that I’m curious about. And I think we need to be curious about as an industry and as people that are looking at prevention and treatment and education.
So, like recently, we just saw the television ad bans for soccer matches, or football, in the UK. The proposed whistle-to-whistle ban is going to be designed to help protect children, right, and the vulnerable. Because everybody is complaining and pushing back and saying there’s too much television marketing for all the gambling sites. And so they’re going to have an ad ban from the start of the game to the end of the game to lighten up that space so that it’s not so aggressive, it’s not viewed as predatory.
Now, let’s be curious. The question we should ask is, will it work? What side effects might it have? Is there a better way? Because any time we do something, we need to start thinking ahead. We need to be curious.
I mean, on the topic of will it work? I think, yeah, I think it could be good. But what happens if all that ad spend gets pushed online? And so all of a sudden, you just have mobile phones. Well, if you look at mobile phone uses compared to TV, mobile is going up, TV is going down. So, you’re just pushing ads onto platforms where people are spending more time anyway. So that’s a side effect, right?
So, is there a better way? Be curious. And it’s not just on the operations side of things. Let’s talk treatment and prevention specialists. We need to be curious in those areas as well.
How can we—how can we reach those people affected by gambling? Is there a better way to introduce our treatment options? Just like I said with the podcast, I mean, I use the podcast as a gateway to get people to recovery. I mean, that’s full disclosure. I’ve mentioned this before. My goal is to get you to a place where you can get help. This podcast is not the end. It is a bridge to those places.
And so, if you’re in one of those places, you’ve got to figure out, okay, what’s the bridge to get to us? And then, once people get to us, what’s the bridge—what’s the bridge to move them forward? Is it sharing something like the podcast? Is it sharing something like an app or a social share where there’s a group already happening where that person that when you meet with them, the time in between, they can kind of reach out to other people and connect and grow?
So, be curious as treatment and prevention specialists. So, hopefully, you’re starting to see the value in being curious.
A commitment to curiosity is going to push the bar higher. It’s going to make us more confident, more effective, and better prepared for the next person that we come across.
Now, here’s another area that we need to be curious about: what’s the number of problem gamblers? When we see these statistics, anywhere from 0.6% to 2%, and if you listen to the podcast, you know that I think those numbers are vastly underestimated. And we need to be curious. I’m curious. I want to know: are those factual? Are there things that are wrong with those? How is the number attained? What might cause those numbers to be inaccurate? How can we improve their accuracy?
Because as a compulsive gambler, I’m doubtful that those numbers are accurate. Because after all, I’ve rarely met someone in recovery who’s gambled and had gambling issues, and those issues were known to their spouse, let alone some researcher.
And with the shame and stigma that’s attached to a gambling problem, if you don’t have to seek out help because you are facing things like eviction from a house, you’re not going to. You’re not going to. It’s not like other things. It’s not like allergies. It’s not like disease where you go seek out help from a professional because it’s socially acceptable and normal to do.
And unlike alcohol and smoking, there’s hardly any screening for gambling issues. You don’t go to your doctor and he says, “Hey, okay, do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you gamble?” No, it’s smoke and drink, right? So all these things—we need to be curious to find out, okay, are the numbers accurate? What things could cause problems with the numbers? What could overinflate them? What could underinflate them? Be curious.
Because maybe that curiosity leads to screenings at our doctors or some other measure that pushes the bar forward. And with this discussion of identifying the problem gamblers, how about the statistics that operators are collecting?
Let’s take that data set. Let’s run some queries against it. Hey, what percentage of gamblers have made more than three deposits in a 24-hour period? Because that showcases chasing losses. Or what percentage of gamblers use credit cards to fund their account? And I’ll rattle off a few more here: What percentage have more than three canceled withdrawals in a six-month span? What’s the average credit score of the customer compared to their spend? What’s that customer’s spend compared to the median income in their zip code or postal code?
All this data is already out there. We just need to be curious, and to be curious enough to dig in and start doing some tests and running some queries and start to identify signs, start to identify metrics that allow us to identify problem gamblers. And then we need to be curious about, okay, what’s the best way to interact with them?
Curiosity is doing a lot of great things in banking. There are new apps where you can go on in the banking app, and you can click off gambling so that you’re no longer able to use your funds on gambling sites. How might it work? What could we improve? How can we make this better?
Curiosity is going to continue to push the bar forward. And how about the internet? This thing that I’m talking to you all around the world on—when they look back in a thousand years, the internet will likely still be one of the most significant inventions in the history of mankind.
And we’re all living in its infancy. It’s going to be massive though. Think about it. So how are we using it? What platforms are available to get our message out? We have websites, we have podcasts, we have blogs, we have videos. We have YouTube, we have Instagram, we have all these different things. We’ve got to be curious about how to get the message out.
And I’ve sort of proven this to be true. Because look—again, it’s not about me, but let’s talk numbers. Ten months later, I now have a podcast with 30,000 downloads, 3,000 website hits, 500-plus followers on Twitter, 150 on Instagram, and a growing YouTube following. I have people that I would never have imagined being able to text back and forth with 10 months ago. Now I do it on a daily basis. Operators, people in the media, people that lead prevention campaigns—I do this daily. And it’s all happened because of the power of the internet and because of the power of being curious.
Okay, curious if this is going to work. And then curious, how can I connect with these people? Where are they connecting and getting involved in the conversation?
So whether you are a compulsive gambler and you’re trying to quit, you’re a compulsive gambler and you’re in recovery, whether you’re a treatment and prevention specialist, whether you work for a gambling company, whether you do marketing, whether you’re in media, whether you work for a nonprofit, whatever you do—what I’m asking you, what I’m imploring you to do is to be curious.
The more curious you are, the better off we all are in the long run.
Thanks for listening. It’s been awesome. I just had a phone call with one of the people that listened to the show yesterday, and stuff like that just makes my day. I’m not going to lie. The messages, the phone calls, the texts, the Twitter messages—I don’t care where it is. It’s phenomenal. It’s awesome. You guys are the best. I appreciate you.
Thank you for listening. As always, I am still not a doctor. I’m still not a lawyer. I’m still not an attorney. I don’t ever want to be any of those things. I’m just a guy with a gambling problem. So please, as I mentioned, use this as your gateway to recovery. Be curious. Go try those different things. See if it’s going to help.
The worst thing that can happen is that it doesn’t work, and you just stop and you do something else that works. But again, be curious.
Music for the show is “Something Elated” by Broke for Free and is licensed under the Creative Commons License. I’m Jamie. I’m a compulsive gambler. Thank you, and I will see you in the next episode.
