AG 029: Key Points We Need to Consider When Drafting Legislation for Sports Betting & Gambling Expansion

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Full Episode Transcript

This is episode 29 of the After Gambling Podcast.
In this episode, we’ll discuss key points for discussion as we look at legalizing sports betting and really just expanding gambling in general.

Jamie:
Hey there, and welcome to the After Gambling Podcast. My name is Jamie. I am a compulsive gambler, and I’m also the host of this show. The last time I gambled was July 15th of 2010.

Now, this is sort of a special edition—one that I wanted to get out. It’s not the typical Friday release because it’s not really the typical episode. And this one, if you are a state representative, state senator, or any type of lawmaker, and you’re tuning in to listen to this episode, welcome. I’m glad that you found this. Hopefully, somebody shared it with you.

I’ll try and keep it brief, and we’ll focus on really what the key points I believe are that we need to be discussing as we look at introducing kind of legislation that expands gambling. Obviously, sports betting being the hot topic right now, but in general, just expansion of gambling.

So first of all, for those that are new, I just want to stress that I’m not some anti-gambling zealot. Yes, gambling, as I mentioned in the opener, I haven’t gambled in eight years, and gambling really has impacted every day of my life in a negative way for 15 to 18 years.

So, even just in recovery now with eight years, I still every day face the negative kind of consequences and the fallout from what I did almost a decade ago, in many cases over a decade ago. And so you can imagine I wouldn’t be heartbroken if gambling just disappeared off the face of the earth.

But I’m also realistic, and I’m realistic that this is going to come. And so I want to make sure that we get legislation that is as effective as possible for everyone involved. And so that’s really my focus. My focus is on awareness, protection, and treatment, and making sure that those things are available for everyone.

And I think that’s something that we can all take this opportunity with the expansion to introduce new products that people want—because people want them. But at the same time, we can also get it right on the legislation side to make sure that we use this as an opportunity to say, “Hey, we’re going to expand this, but did you know that there is this problem?” There are these treatment programs out there even, and also to make sure that we’re protecting the customer.

And I know that’s something that’s a hot button topic, and everybody says, “Hey, we’re going to do this to get rid of the illegal market.” Well, I’m going to kind of hold you to the fire and say, yes, let’s put more protection in place.

And so, like I said, it’s a great opportunity to get things right. And hopefully, my goal and your goal is just to make things better for the next generation.

I was part of the poker wave in the early 2000s, and I think gambling was very new, especially on the internet. And so those things, some of these things weren’t in place yet. But I think we can, now we have a better idea, we can create protection so we don’t have that second generation—or it’s not the second, just the latest generation—to deal with the fallout from gambling.

And like I said, that protection goes for the people that want to gamble as well as the people that don’t want to. So we’re going to protect the people that choose to gamble by putting a safe place, but also protecting those that don’t want to gamble or those that are trying to quit.

And a lot of that is kind of—I think we can focus on the predatory nature of some of the games and design them not to be so predatory. And I think if you look into it and you start researching things like the near miss and losses disguised as wins, just the overall game design of these games is so sophisticated and goes well beyond kind of the slot machine games or the card games of old to really create something that kind of plays upon our current habits that we have with social media and other things to really create a product that is addicting. And so I think that’s something that we really need to focus on.

And now, I also know I hear a lot—and I heard it kind of all last week at the National Conference on Problem Gambling—that legislators oftentimes, and I understand that you’re dealing with competing issues, right? You have different things. And so the pushback is, “Well, we have bigger fish to fry.” And I just want to point out that gambling has the highest suicide rates of all addictions.

So, I know there are bigger fish to fry, and I mean issues that impact more people, but I would just challenge you to realize that gambling is extremely serious. This is a life or death situation. I know personally I’ve dealt with suicidal thoughts, and believe me, you do not want your family to be on the road next to me as I’m driving home from the casino, and I’m thinking maybe I should just end this by driving the car off the road. Because that’s—it’s just—we became a danger for everyone, not just ourselves.

And I also just want to say, yes, it doesn’t seem like it’s a big issue because there aren’t that many people that speak out, but I can say personally the shame and stigma are so daunting. It’s been eight years, and I’m just now feeling comfortable with sharing my story, mostly in an anonymous platform like this podcast.

So there are so many of us, and we do—I mean, people call it the silent addiction, and we suffer alone. Our spouses don’t know. Nobody knows. We’re the only person that knows that we have this big, dark secret and this growing monkey on our back that is just dragging us down.

And so, because you can’t smell it on our breath and you can’t see the physical signs of it, it doesn’t mean that it’s not there. And it’s just one of those things that people aren’t coming forward to talk about. And obviously, that kind of isolation is part of what leads to such a high suicide rate.

Beyond just the problem gambling—the one or two percent—you have a large population. And I know there’s a lot of research right now that’s looking at gambling harm, and just kind of, “Hey, have you had negative impacts on your life from gambling?” And those numbers are much, much, much larger.

I know in one study, I think seven out of ten participants said they had gambling harm. So, maybe they aren’t compulsive gamblers or don’t have gambling disorder yet, but they are experiencing harm from gambling. And that’s something we need to consider.

And that’s where I think there’s an opportunity, if we can really look at it from a broader perspective. It’s not just about the people that are all the way at the end of the spectrum with a severe gambling problem. It’s about the many, many people that are somewhere along that line and are experiencing harm. And if we can put measures in place to minimize that harm and provide resources, then we can prevent people from going down that path.

Now, I also want to say that it’s really important that the people who are gambling know what resources are available. A lot of times, people don’t even know that help is out there. There are treatment programs, there are hotlines, there are support groups, but they’re not well-known. When I was struggling, I didn’t even know what GA (Gamblers Anonymous) was. I didn’t know where to turn. So, as part of any expansion of gambling, there needs to be an awareness component to let people know where they can get help.

I also think we need to take a good look at how we protect people, especially younger people and vulnerable groups. And that comes down to things like limits—whether that’s deposit limits, loss limits, or time limits. I know some countries have introduced maximum loss limits, and I think that’s a great start. Because one of the biggest dangers of gambling is the ability to do unlimited damage very quickly. You can lose everything overnight, and it’s very different from other behaviors in that regard.

And we need to ask ourselves: why are there no limits? We have limits on other things. We have limits on alcohol; you can’t buy alcohol 24 hours a day, and certain strengths are restricted. We have limits on other substances like Sudafed, where you need to provide identification to purchase it. Yet, with gambling, you can take every dollar you have and put it on a game without anyone asking questions. That’s just something we need to address, especially as we expand access to gambling through online platforms and mobile apps.

I think we also need to take a close look at advertising and marketing practices. This is my background, so I understand how powerful advertising can be. And the introduction of smartphones for gambling is going to be game-changing in a lot of ways. But we need to be careful about how we advertise these products. We need to make sure that the advertising is not predatory in nature, that it’s not encouraging people to take unhealthy risks. The same goes for free play bonuses that aren’t really free. A lot of sites offer a “free” match bonus, but then you have to gamble multiple times to actually access that money. It’s misleading, and it can lead people to wager more than they intended.

And I think we need to be especially careful about advertising to children. In the UK, they’ve started taking gambling logos off sports uniforms for kids, and that’s a step in the right direction. We shouldn’t have children’s jerseys with gambling logos on them. And we also need to be careful about how games are designed to appeal to younger people. The Candy Crush-style games and similar apps that are highly addictive shouldn’t be used as models for gambling games, especially when it comes to targeting younger audiences. We don’t need a Joe Camel 2.0 situation, where products are designed specifically to appeal to kids.

We also need to talk about how data is used. With the technology we have today, it wouldn’t be difficult to predict when someone is likely to deposit based on their previous behaviors, like when they get paid. If we can figure that out, then gambling operators can too, and that data can be used to exploit people. We need to put limits on how that data is used so that it’s not being used in a predatory way to keep people gambling.

So, those are some of the key points that I think we need to consider as we look at expanding gambling, particularly with sports betting and online platforms. It’s about putting protections in place for people that want to gamble, raising awareness about the risks, and making sure that treatment options are available for those who need them. And it’s about learning from the mistakes of others—places like the UK, where they’ve had legalized sports betting for years. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel; we can learn from what they’ve done well and what they haven’t.

And with that, I think it’s time we start thinking long-term. This is about more than just passing legislation today. It’s about doing what’s right, being historically correct, and putting people before profits. Because we all know that gambling isn’t going away. The question is, how do we make it safe, how do we protect people, and how do we make sure that when people choose to gamble, they can do so without risking everything?

Thanks for listening to this special episode of the After Gambling Podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or want to share your story, feel free to reach out to me at Jamie@aftergambling.com. You can also find me on social media at @aftergambling. Let’s all keep working together to make gambling safer and more responsible for everyone. Thanks again, and I’ll see you in the next episode.