Hey there and welcome to the After Gambling Podcast. My name is Jamie. I am a compulsive gambler and I’m also the host of this show. The last time I gambled was actually eight years ago this past Sunday, July 15th of 2010. I’m recording this on the 19th of July, so yeah, I’m pretty excited. Just celebrated eight years of clean time, and it was really nice. I’ve had a lot of kind of warm wishes, so I appreciate all of those and appreciate you for listening.
So if you’re following along on social media, you may know that yesterday, I was invited to be a panelist at the National Council on Problem Gambling’s 32nd National Conference. They had a day-long summit on sports and gambling, sports betting and gambling, because here in the US, that’s obviously a hot button topic. The Supreme Court ruling was just passed down a few months ago that made it so that each state could decide on their own if they would allow sports betting in their state. Basically, it allows for the expansion of sports betting into the states and doesn’t just restrict it to Nevada.
I was invited to come and kind of share both what I thought the implications would be for my state, the state of Ohio, and also was invited and was able to share the stage with a fellow compulsive gambler, Lisa, who is also in recovery and is doing quite well and does some training and coaching. She’s a former athlete as well, so we kind of spoke to the specific things that athletes deal with or the traits that lead us into compulsive gambling quite often. It was a great day, got a ton out of it, had a lot of positive feedback at the event as well.
I’ll be honest, it was also quite frustrating. There were quite a few lobbyists and some senators and folks that maybe haven’t had the same experiences with gambling that I have had, so obviously, I understand that. Going back to the switch shoes, I switch shoes with them and understand that they can’t understand my position. I just hope that, just as I’m trying to understand their position, they will give us the time to fully understand our position on the topic. I think we have a lot to bring to the table.
On one of the panels, and I’ll put a link to the Facebook Lives, so if you want to check out Yours Truly on stage, you can do that. We’ll put those on. But anyways, the one topic that came up was having a database that would be able to identify people that were placing too many bets. One thing I said to the senator was, I like the concept, but his big push is to get rid of illegal gambling. If I can gamble illegally and not be in something that is going to be a database, that’s going to maybe inform either myself or family or whoever about issues with problem gambling, that’s going to push me to the illegal market.
I don’t want to be tracked. I’ve mentioned before that, and I mentioned it yesterday, when I went, the last day I went to gamble on the riverboat, I almost walked off because they wanted to see my ID just to slide it in because I did not want to be tracked. I think that’s a common theme that they just maybe don’t understand because they weren’t in our shoes. The isolation and the lengths that we go to isolate and protect ourselves and therefore to protect our addiction and allow it to continue, we go to extremes.
Those are some of the things that I think it’s important to have a 360 view of the topic in order to create regulation and legislation that works for everybody. I’ve kind of come to grips with the fact that it’s going to come, and we’re going to have it. I hope that the people that are passing these bills are thinking long term and thinking legacy and history, because that’s really what’s at stake for them — their legacy and how history looks back upon them.
I’ve mentioned before, I think this is tobacco 2.0, and sometimes now I guess I appreciate those people that probably have been screaming about that or global warming or some of these issues that now everybody’s kind of coming around on. Sometimes yesterday, I just felt like I was listening to these things and I just wanted to yell out, “No, this is not even close to how this is, or how gamblers think, or just overall reality.” So yeah, I can appreciate that.
If you have a cause that you’re fighting for and people don’t seem to understand, I can empathize with that in a way that I could not previously, and that was brought to light, especially yesterday. On that topic, the one thing that always comes up is that it’s only 1% to 2% of the population that has a gambling problem. The senator pointed that out to me — that most people can gamble normally, but obviously, there was a couple of people like me. I said, “Yeah, I know several people, senator.”
The number of people affected — we have no clue. I think that’s the one thing I want to try to point out to people. The fact that our spouses don’t know, the fact that our families don’t know just goes to prove that. How is some researcher going to know? I signed one of the researchers, and they were talking about how it’s a struggle now to even just get people on the phone, so it’s hard to get data. Unfortunately, that’s all working in the advantage of those that are trying to push through legislation that expands gambling without addressing the seriousness of the fallout that’s going to happen.
One thing that was brought up was, “Oh, it’s just a different culture in the UK on sports betting, and it’s just kind of what they do.” I was thinking, yeah, because they’ve had it for 60 years, they’ve developed this habit. It’s like we smoke, and we have chain smokers here in the US because we’ve developed that habit. That doesn’t mean that it’s a good habit; it just means that it’s a habit.
I’m going to continue to try and put my marketing and thought hat on and think of ways around this small percentage. The one thing I really want to look at is the data and really understand the 1% to 2%. Is that of the total population? Because if that’s of the total population, that’s a skewed result anyway because there’s a large portion of the population that doesn’t gamble at all. Why would they be included in that percentage?
It’s kind of like saying, well, I mean, almost no one dies while piloting an airplane. The number is 0.000001% if you included everyone on the planet. Now, if you do that same data and only include people that have a pilot’s license, that number is going to be dramatically larger because most of us don’t have a pilot’s license. If you don’t have a pilot’s license, you’re not going to be flying a plane. If you’re not flying a plane, you can’t be flying a plane when it crashes.
So hopefully you see my line of thought on this. If we’re including people that are never going to gamble or they just don’t gamble, that’s skewing the results. What we need to look at is the number of people with a problem as a proportion of the total number of people that gamble and, even further, gamble on a regular basis.
I think that is a study that people would be open to discussing. How often do you gamble? How often do you go? What’s the frequency? With those non-threatening questions, we can start to get a better idea of what the volume of actual gambling is. The other thing — my shower thought of the day today — was that if you surveyed people, the gambling industry would be taking an epic loss right now. Because if you surveyed people, nobody loses. Everybody talks about their wins.
If you surveyed 100 people and said, “Hey, what are your net gambling wins or losses?” the casinos would probably be operating at a huge loss if the results that those people told you were actually true. But we obviously know that we’re complicated people, and we don’t tell the truth in situations that we’re embarrassed about. Like I said, I’m going to keep digging. If you have ideas on how you think we can improve the testing or other comparisons that you think might be useful in talking to legislators, let me know.
That was one theme that I heard from a lot of folks that work for the states — when they go to talk to colleges and universities or they go to talk to legislators, they say, “Well, we have bigger fish to fry.” They have bigger issues out there. Until we can go to them with some kind of thought process or facts-based research, they’re going to continue to say, “Hey, this isn’t a problem.” And then we’ll all wake up in 40 or 60 years, and it’ll just be part of our culture like in the UK, and we’ll have a lot of the issues that my friends in the UK are struggling with — and in Australia, the same thing.
I just don’t know why we need to go down that road to find out for ourselves. But maybe it’s like gambling. Sometimes you have to go down that road to find out for yourself just how bad it is.
Another topic that came up at the end of the day was youth and gambling. I brought up the point that we need to expand what we talk about when we talk about gambling. It’s not just sports betting or cards. We need to include e-gaming and skins betting because those are two of the things that I see as a huge growing problem in the youth population. Many of you listening to this — especially the younger audience — might have experienced those problems yourself. These are things that we don’t typically think of.
The thought was to educate the general population — parents and educators — about these issues with the youth. From a research point of view, I think it would be fascinating to study the impact of social media and status on youth. It’s not even just about youth gambling; it’s more about social media and its effects on young people, but I think there are parallels with gambling that we could draw conclusions from.
You see it right now. If you listen to Gary Vaynerchuk, he always talks about how every five to twenty-year-old kid wants to be a YouTuber or an Instagram influencer. Why is that? What’s the psychology behind that? I think a big part of it is that they see money as an easy way to achieve a certain status. If you gain a following, you can get brand deals, which is a way to elevate your status. We’re all trying to elevate our status, and in the United States, we are the culture that loves “bigger and better.” We want bigger homes, better cars, and so on.
Whether we like these people or not, we’re trying to impress them. There’s a great line, and I’m drawing a blank on it right now, but you’ve probably heard it — about how we buy things we don’t need with money we don’t have to impress people we don’t like. That’s a big part of the psychology at play.
What impact is social media having? You could create a survey asking about social media, but then also throw in questions like, “What are some ways you view as shortcuts to success?” Maybe you could include some gambling-related questions to see if those responses align. Do young people view gambling as a shortcut to financial success or status?
Another aspect of social media is how we’re inundated with posts from friends and celebrities. It plays to our need to climb the social ladder. We see these people living their lives in a different way, which can lead to depression or feelings of inadequacy. Our view of success gets skewed as we try to keep up with others. We see their highlight reels while living our own blooper reels.
If people are seeing their friends take fancy vacations, move into nicer homes, or drive better cars, it’s natural that they also want those things. The more we see that, the more we want to achieve it quickly. It would be interesting to research how people view different ways to achieve those things. Is it working hard and climbing the corporate ladder? Is it creating a side hustle? Is it gambling? Is it becoming a social media influencer? All these things are happening simultaneously, and they’re creating a very combustible environment.
When we throw gambling into the mix, my fear is that we’re adding fuel to an already unstable situation. It’s going to be a disaster because people will see gambling as a quick way to get money. When they start to gamble, if they have an initial big win, it’s tough to ever turn back the clock. That’s my concern.
So those are some of my takeaways. I’m just kind of free-flowing today, and I wanted to document my thoughts from yesterday while they’re still fresh. The cool thing is, in the next couple of weeks, we’re going to hit over 10,000 downloads. So thank you for listening — that’s kind of mind-blowing. I remember when I was at 300 downloads, and every week at my GA meeting, I’d be like, “Hey guys, we went over 400 downloads,” and then, “We went over 500.” Now it’s growing by several thousand per month.
Thanks for listening, sharing, and for the messages. I don’t know everything. I admit that, and you guys probably have way more and better ideas. As a whole, the more we have reaching out and sharing, the better.
The other thing I’ll say is that there’s so much shame and stigma. I’m eight years into my recovery, and I’m just now comfortable doing this. Looking back, I wish I would have done it earlier, but I think everything has its time. Trust your gut instinct. If your gut’s telling you that you need to share, follow that instinct. If your gut says now’s not the right time, follow that too. Just don’t do things too quickly. When you do feel it’s the right time, go with it. It’s very liberating.
To be honest, yesterday was one of the first days since I started gambling — over 15 years ago — that I really felt like a success. It was freeing. And not only will sharing your story help you, but it can also help others.
I shared a quote from Brené Brown on my Instagram: “When you own your story, you get to write the ending.” I’m living that now, and I’m seeing the value in being vulnerable and sharing your shame. It’s where freedom lives. I want you to feel that freedom too. We need more voices. Andy does great work on YouTube — definitely check him out — but we need more than just our voices.
If you want to start sharing your story, create an anonymous account on social media or start a blog. It will be powerful, and it will make a difference. If you do, message me, and I’ll start promoting you so we can spread the word.
Because yeah, that’s what’s going to make a difference. And that’s going to wrap up this kind of wrap-up edition of my day at the National Council on Problem Gambling’s 32nd Annual Conference.
Disclaimer:
Remember, the views expressed here are just for educational purposes. I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer, I’m not a therapist. So please, please seek out the help of professionals. Gambling disorder is a serious issue, and you deserve to have the right people helping you through this. Seek out the help of a professional.
Music Attribution:
Finally, music for the show is “Something Elated” by Broke For Free, and it is licensed under the Creative Commons license.
Jamie:
Thank you for listening. I’ll see you in the next episode. Take care.
